From today in my country no one gets to dine or drink in a public bar /restaurant unless they have a government digital cert demonstrating they are fully vaccinated , this has them in a right indignant rage which I must says delights me no end they will also not be allowed to travel abroad or indeed stay in hotels , guest houses over here unless fully vaccinated or can demonstrate they are covid free
I was selling my Art work at my open air gallery in the capital and suddenly surrounded by thousands of these at a protest rally most in fairness were harmless wasters new age nuts smoking weed , religious nuts , and hippies banging drums in protest at “government tyranny “ all of life’s usual losers and nuts gathered together ……none of course protested at the generous Covid payments still in place till September and those who work are now claiming “ I’m not vaccinated man so shouldn’t be forced back into the work place “
They have not got one decent objection to the vaccine , I questioned several and all they did was quote some religious or new age nuts opinions
How many on here are fully vaccinated?
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Ahh you joined my debate I thought you were an anti vaxxer as you've admitted you're a rabd science denier already
It's " abelist " to reject the vaccine ? Where do you get this ridiculous terminology from?
Ahh right you're also a " racist " now if you don't vax , you really are nuts , I guess your solution as usual is jail everyone who disagrees with your lunacy
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@Dee
We shouldn't it's a person's personal and religious right to do so.
I think oftentimes the argument that it will "save lives" is a rather flimsy one. It saves many lives to lower the speed limit to 4 mph. It also saves a large number of lives to actively monitor everyone's day-to-day routines and conversations, but such things are an abuse of basic human dignity.
If a person refuses a vaccine, it's his or her choice. Likewise, if I shoot myself in the foot, it's my choice. If I want to kill myself, hurt myself, or limit myself, it should be my choice.
We don't dictate that the Amish should use electricity since it's their choice, even though it would help them. Likewise, we don't dictate people use vaccines, although it helps them because it's their choice.
There is a fine line between the government overstepping and rational government control. And forcing something into someone's body crosses that boundary.
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How does religion come into it? What are religious rights regarding matters of global concern?
I think oftentimes the argument that it will "save lives" is a rather flimsy one.
Do you indeed? Well thankfully the world's population is not American Repulicans like you and Trump who have blood on their hands.
It saves many lives to lower the speed limit to 4 mph. It also saves a large number of lives to actively monitor everyone's day-to-day routines and conversations, but such things are an abuse of basic human dignity.
Two ridiculous analogies and typical swerve and deflect tactics
If a person refuses a vaccine, it's his or her choice
If you refused a vaccine in my country you could not go anywhere without a covid pass when restrictions lifted and of course the clowns who refused the vaccine wailed non stop about how their rights were being infringed upon, you and your type have zero right to go around insisting you have a right to mix with the aged and vulnerable without a vaccine that's the price you have to accept for your selfishness
. Likewise, if I shoot myself in the foot, it's my choice. If I want to kill myself, hurt myself, or limit myself, it should be my choice.
Yes agreed but as usual you totally miss the point and I would grant you the right to shoot yourself but not to shoot me which is what you want as why should you have a " right" to infect others?
We don't dictate that the Amish should use electricity since it's their choice
But the Amish not using or using electricity does not affect me people like you who may have covid do affect people
, even though it would help them. Likewise, we don't dictate people use vaccines, although it helps them because it's their choice.
Don't use them then but would you knowingly expect to interact with others including family knowing you may have it? If so why?
There is a fine line between the government overstepping and rational government control. And forcing something into someone's body crosses that boundary.
Well again we didn't force it in my country but if you didn't have the vaccine you could literally go nowhere without the covid pass so I would be fine with that letting the anti crowd take their well deserved medicine
Incidentally an American woman a Republican like you called me a" " online for vaxxing she told me her son and his friend were at a beach party in Florida which is what real American men did , a month later her son and his friend died and the s-pid said "at least he died a free man" I offered her zero sympathy and told her " your job was to raise your son in which you've failed miserably and not alone do you have his blood on your hands but the blood of many more by spreading lies and misinformation , so go live with that you sad , lonely "
You may say harsh but I'm afraid it's true.
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No it's actually not , I've only once heard a super sensitive cupcake use it here , it's a term used by cupcakes in an attempt to deny people free speech
Right everyone who doesn't vax including blacks are racist? You really do make a lot of truly i-iotic comments.
Everything you don't agree with is to you "racist " you quoted your favorite author earlier who actually treats blacks like infants , grow up you big child.
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For that matter, you are wrong: there are no dominant racial groups in the world, but if one is to be considered dominant, it would be the Asian which forms nearly a third of the world's population, followed by the Middle-Eastern, then the White and the Black very close to each other.
Let me further put you on the spot. Suppose a white man was to say, "I hate all black people", and a black man was to say, "I hate all white people". Do I understand it correctly that, from your point of view, the white man here is racist, but the black man is not?
I am curious just how deep your ideological rabbit hole goes. You already are making some of the most racist statements ever made on this website, but how much further do you have yet to go? Perhaps we will come to the point of considering murdering all white people a house cleaning?
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Argument topic: Dreamer again tries to screech " you're a racist to anyone who disagrees with her/him
No but you clearly said white people were so you cannot have one without the other
. What I said is they are enforcing systematic racism.
Who are "they" ?
Only the historically dominant group, white people can be racist.
Absolute nonsense racism means : prejudice and discrimination by a person,community or people against,people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, your ignorance is truly astonishing.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/racial-inequalities-in-covid-19-the-impact-on-black-communities#What-explains-the-disparities?-And-how-does-racism-play-into-it?-
Rubbish ,the latest findings disagree with your poorly researched piece of tripe., whites aren more likely to die of covid than blacks according to latest research ,so don't you just know that doesn't mean blacks are racist as in your ridiculous world view only whites can be be racist.
You truly are by any standard a truly ignorant uneducated snowflake, only yesterday you demonstrated the depths of your st-pidity by posting up a link to rational wiki thinking it supported your hypersensitive cupcake PC views when in fact it openly mocked people like you who spend their waking days waiting to burst out crying as their feelings were hurt
.
You brand anyone who disagrees with you "racist" and all your views come from others who's views you dont even understand.
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Wow! Every time I correct you the best you can do is run, you can get help if you wish I don't mind.
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Ever heard of that guy, Martin Luther King? He would punch you in the face for what you just said, and I cannot say that, as a witness, I would testify against him.
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Oftentimes, a person's religion forbids them to use vaccines or other modern medicines. Such as J*hovah's witnesses, I'm not saying they're fully right to reject the vaccine. I'm simply saying that if you force them, and other similar groups to take the vaccine, that is a violation of religious expression.
Demonstrate how the analogies are deflections of the broader logic behind vaccine mandates. They are demonstrations of the logic: "A policy is beneficial simply because it saves and prevents lives." Which is commonly applied to pro-mandate arguments.
But when someone is infected from covid from an unvaccinated person, that is not their fault. It is analogous to forcing a gun into someone's hand and then forcing them to pull the trigger. They have literally 0 control over whether or not they will infect that person.
Furthermore, if we want to prevent the spread of covid, why don't we all force people to wear gasmasks, or hazmat suits as those would further limit the spread of covid? By your logic, if covid affects people, and thus we must limit its spread, shouldn't we institute such measures?
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Argument Topic: Dreamer calls anyone who disagrees with him / her " racist"
You provided one source which is from a trash site with a one star rating and the other source totally disagreed with you and as usual you totally ignore and keep polluting the site with your ridiculous anti science pieces..
So tell me using your reasoning that means blacks are racist? I'm starting to think youre insane
Harvard T.Chan.
COVID death rate now higher in whites than in Blacks
October 21, 2022 – The COVID death rate among Black Americans—which was the highest in the U.S. for many months during the pandemic, due to health disparities—is now lower than that of white Americans.
As of mid-October 2021, the rate of death among whites eclipsed that of other groups, except for during the Omicron surge, according to data analyzed by the Washington Post.
According to an October 19 article in the Post, the switch is the result of longstanding issues of race and class that interacted with the physical and psychological toll of mass illness and death, social upheaval, public policies, and public opinion.
Nancy Krieger, professor of social epidemiology at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, was among experts quoted in the article. Krieger said that the shift in COVID death rates “has vastly different implications for public health interventions.” She added that officials must figure out how to connect with “communities who are ideologically opposed to the vaccine” while contending with “the cumulative impact of injustice” on communities of color.
Read the Washington Post article: Whites now more likely to die from covid than Blacks: Why the pandemic shifted
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You read but didn't address my many points as again you more or less ignore everything I said and go off on a new tack , please at lest try , here you go again......
@MineSubCraftStarved
How does religion come into it? What are religious rights regarding matters of global concern?
I think oftentimes the argument that it will "save lives" is a rather flimsy one.
Do you indeed? Well thankfully the world's population is not American Repulicans like you and Trump who have blood on their hands.
It saves many lives to lower the speed limit to 4 mph. It also saves a large number of lives to actively monitor everyone's day-to-day routines and conversations, but such things are an abuse of basic human dignity.
Two ridiculous analogies and typical swerve and deflect tactics
If a person refuses a vaccine, it's his or her choice
If you refused a vaccine in my country you could not go anywhere without a covid pass when restrictions lifted and of course the clowns who refused the vaccine wailed non stop about how their rights were being infringed upon, you and your type have zero right to go around insisting you have a right to mix with the aged and vulnerable without a vaccine that's the price you have to accept for your selfishness
. Likewise, if I shoot myself in the foot, it's my choice. If I want to kill myself, hurt myself, or limit myself, it should be my choice.
Yes agreed but as usual you totally miss the point and I would grant you the right to shoot yourself but not to shoot me which is what you want as why should you have a " right" to infect others?
We don't dictate that the Amish should use electricity since it's their choice
But the Amish not using or using electricity does not affect me people like you who may have covid do affect people
, even though it would help them. Likewise, we don't dictate people use vaccines, although it helps them because it's their choice.
Don't use them then but would you knowingly expect to interact with others including family knowing you may have it? If so why?
There is a fine line between the government overstepping and rational government control. And forcing something into someone's body crosses that boundary.
Well again we didn't force it in my country but if you didn't have the vaccine you could literally go nowhere without the covid pass so I would be fine with that letting the anti crowd take their well deserved medicine
Incidentally an American woman a Republican like you called me a" " online for vaxxing she told me her son and his friend were at a beach party in Florida which is what real American men did , a month later her son and his friend died and the s-pid said "at least he died a free man" I offered her zero sympathy and told her " your job was to raise your son in which you've failed miserably and not alone do you have his blood on your hands but the blood of many more by spreading lies and misinformation , so go live with that you sad , lonely "
You may say harsh but I'm afraid it's true.
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What points did I not address? Regardless, here are the arguments I made last time:
Oftentimes, a person's religion forbids them to use vaccines or other modern medicines. Such as J*hovah's witnesses, I'm not saying they're fully right to reject the vaccine. I'm simply saying that if you force them, and other similar groups to take the vaccine, that is a violation of religious expression.
Demonstrate how the analogies are deflections of the broader logic behind vaccine mandates. They are demonstrations of the logic: "A policy is beneficial simply because it saves and prevents lives." Which is commonly applied to pro-mandate arguments.
But when someone is infected from covid from an unvaccinated person, that is not their fault. It is analogous to forcing a gun into someone's hand and then forcing them to pull the trigger. They have literally 0 control over whether or not they will infect that person.
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If you refused a vaccine in my country you could not go anywhere without a covid pass when restrictions lifted and of course those who refused the vaccine wailed non stop about how their rights were being infringed upon, you and your type have zero right to go around insisting you have a right to mix with the aged and vulnerable without a vaccine that's the price you have to accept for your selfishness
Do you accept this if not why not? Do you feel you have a" right" to infect others.?
Well again we didn't force it in my country but if you didn't have the vaccine you could literally go nowhere without the covid pass so I would be fine with that letting the anti crowd take their well deserved medicine, what is your problem with this stance?
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So, those that do not get vaccinated against not just covid but also flu are not only racist to mbame groups but they also discriminate against the elderly, and the immune-compromised, and so forth?
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If an elderly person consents to such a thing then it's their right. Similarly, it's the right of the retirement home to allow unvaccinated people in. Government should have no say in this business as such business is fundamentally consensual.
You aren't infecting others, it's like someone placing a gun into your hand and forcing you to pull the trigger. You have no control over the extent of the infection of Covid to other individuals or who will be infected.
Furthermore, if we really see the spreading of viruses as a civil violation you imply. Why don't we take that same logic and mandate hazmat suits and gas masks to lower the risk of disease infections? After all? What right does anyone have to infect another person?
What Ireland does isn't the most relevant to the discussion. A vaccine pass is effectively the same as a vaccine mandate in the context of this discussion as both infringe upon the rights of the unvaccinated.
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If an elderly person consents to such a thing then it's their right. Similarly, it's the right of the retirement home to allow unvaccinated people in. Government should have no say in this business as such business is fundamentally consensual.
Right , so you honestly think an elderly person who I specifically said isx " vulnerable " would consent to such? Why would a person who was possibly carrying the virus even contemplate visiting such a person.?
Such a business has no right to allow people in who may infect patients and staff, you honestly believe hospitals have such a "right"?
You aren't infecting others
You are if you have it
, it's like someone placing a gun into your hand and forcing you to pull the trigger.
No it's not, did you take covid tests before visiting those you cared for?
You have no control over the extent of the infection of Covid to other individuals or who will be infected.
Stop talking utter nonsense do you know how a virus spreads?
Furthermore, if we really see the spreading of viruses as a civil violation you imply.
I didn't see it that way every civilised country in the world did
Why don't we take that same logic and mandate hazmat suits and gas masks to lower the risk of disease infections? After all? What right does anyone have to infect another person?
Why what infections are killing as many as covid? Remarkable that you're against abortion but for people having a " right" to infect others including women carrying a fetus
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It's under the terms of the contract they sign between them and their tenants(IE. their choice).
Yes, and if you test positive, then maybe it would be right to make it illegal for them to enter. But if an unvaccinated person goes into a retirement home and tests negative, I don't see why they should still be forced out regardless by the government.
Do you order the virus that will be infected? Can you control it like you're shooting a gun? No? Then you can't control how or who the virus inside you infects other people.
This is why in every civilized country the police investigate covid(and other diseases) infections as a crime. Except whoops, they don't.
This isn't relevant, again...
Why don't we take that same logic and mandate hazmat suits and gas masks to lower the risk of disease infections? After all? What right does anyone have to infect another person?
Why do we stop at vaccine mandates, why not mandate those things as well?
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It's under the terms of the contract they sign between them and their tenants(IE. their choice)
Thankfully no facility for the aged and vulnerable here have in their contracts ....a "right"to infect others
Yes, and if you test positive, then maybe it would be right to make it illegal for them to enter. But if an unvaccinated person goes into a retirement home and tests negative, I don't see why they should still be forced out regardless by the government.
You couldn't go into a hospital or nursing home over here or in most countries during the height of the crisis do you not remember this?
Even when restrictions were loosened it was illegal to enter without a covid pass
Do you order the virus that will be infected?
are you on about?
Can you control it like you're shooting a gun?
Yes stopping it's spread is controlling it.
No? Then you can't control how or who the virus inside you infects other people
You obviously don't know how a virus spreads you sound exactly like your hero Trump who has blood on his hands by lying and downplaying the Covid virus
This is why in every civilized country the police investigate covid(and other diseases) infections as a crime
You 're not terribly bright are you? I never said having covid or a virus was a crime , what was a crime was breaking curfews and laws pertains to curfews
. Except whoops, they don't
Your strawman didn't work , not surprising really from a d- mmy who doesn't know if 1+ 1 = 2 or maybe 3
This isn't relevant, again...
It is, again ......you always do this when you cannot answer a question so do tell what infections are killing as many as covid at the moment?
Why don't we take that same logic and mandate hazmat suits and gas masks to lower the risk of disease infections? After all? What right does anyone have to infect another person?
Tell me the virus that's presently doing as much damage as covid.
Why do we stop at vaccine mandates, why not mandate those things as well?
What is doing as much damage as covid at the moment.?
I just bet you do your usual and run. BTW you keep telling everyone how much you care dor the unborn yet insist unvaccinated people should have a "right " to infect at risk pregnant mothers , you know what that makes you?
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I guess we could say it should be Mandatory in certain circles but maybe not nationwide. At least not now. The last time I checked COVID on the UK is being treated as flu.
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And that decision of covid passes should be left up to individual corporations and their shareholders/customers. As opposed to a government intervention.
We aren't talking about curfews.
So for clarification, you don't think spreading diseases is a crime?
Why do the affects of other diseases matter to a conversation regarding covid vaccine mandates? Regardless, if you adopt the position of pursuing vaccination for the sake of protection, then you must also support vaccine mandates and other similar protections for diseases besides Covid-19 as well.
That wasn't my point... Again, if we truly want to stop covid, or any other diseases, why do we stop at vaccine mandates? If the logic is that we must stop the spread of covid to save lives, then we must also take such measures as well.
The reliance of abusive ad hominem attacks and tu quoque fallacious statements don't address the argument at hand.
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And that decision of covid passes should be left up to individual corporations and their shareholders/customers. As opposed to a government intervention
No it shouldn't which is why it wasn't the case, thankfully nuts like you weren't running the show , just look at the damage you Trumpers did in the US with your campaigns of misinformation and lies.
We aren't talking about curfews.
Yes we are.
So for clarification, you don't think spreading diseases is a crime?
So for clarification people that disobeyed covid rules were committing a crime so worldwide the spreading of the virus was indeed a crime,were you asleep during the pandemic?
Why do the affects of other diseases matter to a conversation regarding covid vaccine mandates?
Why which diseases did I mention?
Regardless, if you adopt the position of pursuing vaccination for the sake of protection, then you must also support vaccine mandates and other similar protections for diseases besides Covid-19 as well.
Yes which is why I've had 5 so far in my life , you're anti vaxxer , I guess you think praying is more effective?
That wasn't my point.
It destroyed you point , you're deflecting and dodging.......again.
.. Again, if we truly want to stop covid, or any other diseases, why do we stop at vaccine mandates?
So you don't want to stop disease.?
If the logic is that we must stop the spread of covid to save lives, then we must also take such measures as well.
Why do you constantly ignore everything that challenges your poorly reasoned clap trap?
I asked you to name one virus that has caused as much damage as covid in our times?
Smallpox killed 300 million worldwide,vaccines eliminated it , you no doubt see that as a great evil?
How do you think we rid the world of Polio ? Rubella? Measles? Ebola?
You anti vaxxers all have blood on your hands.
The reliance of abusive ad hominem attacks and tu quoque fallacious statements don't address the argument at hand
It's not an Ad hominem to state your normal tactic is to run for the hills when challenged , let's re- visit , your first debate on here you claimed that 1+1= (maybe) 2 or (maybe) 3 , several people asked you to address this truly nonsensical statement you,of course fled.
You next debate regards Jews had you fleeing again as the state of Israel according to you does not actually get to decide who is a Jew but that decision is yours alone to decide, even leaving you claiming your own mother is not a Jew even though she fits the criteria set by the state of Israel , you see how this is going? You consistently deny reality thinking your actual fantasies are such , you need mental health help.
Finally you really don't understand the fallacies you keep misunderstanding you also misunderstood the Tu Quoque fallacy as its not a fallacy to point out your totally inconsistent views , how can you be pro life if you insist a possible carrier of deadly virus has a "right " to infect others including pregnant women who's potential offspring you hypocritically claim you care for?
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Should Covid-19 Vaccines be Mandated?
^This is the title of your debate. Vaccine mandates, not curfews, stay on topic.So if spreading the virus is a crime, you should therefore criminally charge people for infecting others, right? I just want to understand your logic.
Says who?
And I keep asking back:
Why does it matter?
I don't care about other viruses really, we are talking about covid vaccine mandates. I simply pointed out how a similar logic can be applied to all diseases.
By ruling out covid as an exception to which only such measures can be applied is a bit illogical. This is because you're arbitrarily setting a bar from which you may base whether or not a disease is worth abuse of liberty by the government or not.
We weren't even debating in that, regardless, nom refused to argue with me any further. So if anything he fled away.
The state of Israel also defines Jewishness as ancestry, and it being based on parentage:
Regardless, this is irrelevant to the topic. And no, my mother is only Jewish by religion, she is not a Hebrew by ethnicity.
It's fallacy because you're focusing on me as a person and your previous experiences with me, rather than my argument as a whole.
Pretty much...
If covid vaccines should be mandated in the interest of public safety. Then by that same logic, hazmat suits and gas masks should also be mandated to limit the spread of the virus, as such thing would save lives, like vaccine mandates.
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^This is the title of your debate. Vaccine mandates, not curfews, stay on topic.I am on topic it's you who keeps attempting to change tack.
So if spreading the virus is a crime, you should therefore criminally charge people for infecting others, right? I just want to understand your logic.
Stay on topic, people were charges and fined for violating the restrictions why is this so hard for you to comprehend?
Says who?
Me , why who else do you think is responding to you?
And I keep asking back:
Why does it matter?
Well it matters to most except anti vaxxers like you
I don't care about other viruses really, we are talking about covid vaccine mandates
Stop constantly mentioning them then. I know.
. I simply pointed out how a similar logic can be applied to all diseases.
You don't do "logic " you are still claiming 1+1 =2 or maybe 3 , right?
By ruling out covid as an exception to which only such measures can be applied is a bit illogical.
But I never said that again you're deflecting if a virus comes along as severe as Covid the same measures will be applied
This is because you're arbitrarily setting a bar from which you may base whether or not a disease is worth abuse of liberty by the government or not.
Stop talking nonsense I set no bar governments worldwide did i-diots like you and fellow Trumpsters feel you were "abused " by not being allowed to potentially spread a virus.
We weren't even debating in that, regardless, nom refused to argue with me any further. So if anything he fled away.
Nonsense, you were put in your place by Nom and I , in fact you're now claiming the Israeli government doesn't define what a Jew is but confused Amercans do , you even said your own mother is not in fact a Jew right?
When confronted with this you fled and refused to argue with me anymore , you did the same with your 1+1 =3 rubbish
The state of Israel also defines Jewishness as ancestry, and it being based on parentage:
So why did you say your mother is not a Jew as the state of Israel disagrees with you?
Regardless, this is irrelevant to the topic. And no, my mother is only Jewish by religion, she is not a Hebrew by ethnicity.
She's still a Jew and entitled to Jewish citizenship, you don't have to be a Hebrew by ethnicity to be a Jew, why are you still so upset by rhis?
It's fallacy because you're focusing on me as a person and your previous experiences with me, rather than my argument as a whole.
Nonsense I've exposed you for the hypocrite you are with your pretend pro life stance
Pretty much...
If covid vaccines should be mandated in the interest of public safety. Then by that same logic, hazmat suits and gas masks should also be mandated to limit the spread of the virus, as such thing would save lives, like vaccine mandates.
Nonsense, tell me a virus thats causing damage like Covid did?
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Then don't talk about curfews when the subject is clearly regarding vaccine mandates.
You don't know me well enough to make such rash assumptions about my beliefs.
Who defines the level of severity a virus needs to have such measures enacted? And what level must be reached?
For violating curfew, sure, but not for spreading the virus. In today's modern western legal system, no-one is prosecuted for the act of spreading the virus itself. I don't see people successfully suing others for allegedly spreading the virus to them.
Again, we didn't even debate in that forum. So I'm not sure what I ran away from...
I already clarified semantical differences between a Jew and a Hebrew. If you wanna define a Jew as purely a religious thing, then sure. But to deny that there as an ethnicity associated with Judaism, namely Hebrews, is inaccurate.
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It's pretty useless trying to have a serious debate with you as everything is down to race with you, also you seem to think that what happens in the US applies to the whole world. Americans do this all the time.
You claimed blacks dying of Covid was down to racism then when the reverse was demonstrated to be the case you still claimed that's also to do with racism by whites, please stop talking.
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Yes, thank you for summarizing my argument. Prejudice is most powerful when it is subconscious. Don't forget classism, poor people have more asthma and diabetes due to subpar living conditions.
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Race is not everything there is classism for example
Will you please stop constantly posting ridiculous links and attempting to lecture?
, you seem to care a lot about the working class.
Yes ,you don't your attitude to them regards climate change measures was let them cycle 16 miles to work a day the exercise will do them good
Waiters and bus drivers for example are more exposed to the covid-19 and often live in subpar living conditions leading to more chronic disease. I am unsure why you are arguing with me when we both agree that we need vaccine mandates.
What I disagree with is you constantly lying and relating everything to race
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I do agree that vaccines are generally good for an individual. However, forcing them on mass would only unnecessarily harm people and would be an abuse of civil privacy and dignity. This is my position
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It harms people because it is an infringement on the rights of the individual. If you mandate vaccines on mass then you must adopt a number of other similar covid-preventing policies, like forcing hazmat suits and gasmasks, as that would slow the spread of the virus. (If you go by the same logic)
I have yet to hear your side of the argument as well.
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I am up to date on all vaccines that I should take for my safety, so yes.
The main premise of my claim is that vaccines are a violation of a person's own bodily, and often religious autonomy. A person should have the choice to have a vaccine or not, pure and simple.
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Well they obviously shouldnt and there seems to be a misconception on what rights are here.
For example, what about the elderly and vulnerable?
They have the same right as everyone else. To get a vaccine or not. They can also choose to decide whether to go out in public. It would be unlawful for me to go into their house without permission, but everyone has the same right to public spaces. Making someone take preventative measures for someone else is not a right, it placing someone on a pedistool.
Additionally ive heard you dont have a right to infect someone else.
Well considering that is how disease spreads, a guarantee almost everyone on the planet is now a criminal.
Does everyone need a hazmat suit? Do you have to monitor how everyone washes their hands? Additionally everyone with the vaccine still spreads the virus.
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Well they obviously shouldnt and there seems to be a misconception on what rights are here.
Well obviously they were. Regards rights you mean your conception of rights is the correct one right? No doubt your conception of morality is the right one also?
For example, what about the elderly and vulnerable?
They have the same right as everyone else. To get a vaccine or not
Yes, and if they wished to exercise this right in my country they were denied access most everywhere when restrictions were eased as they had no valid covid pass
. They can also choose to decide whether to go out in public.
Well no they couldn't over here certainly no one could
It would be unlawful for me to go into their house without permission, but everyone has the same right to public spaces.
No they hadn't over here
Making someone take preventative measures for someone else is not a right, it placing someone on a pedistool.
On what reasonable would you refuse to take a vaccine?
Well considering that is how disease spreads, a guarantee almost everyone on the planet is now a criminal.
I had the vaccine I got covid and I was fine most people likewise , yet I know several who got covid before the vaccine was out and most suffered terribly , why do you view vaccines so negatively?
Does everyone need a hazmat suit? Do you have to monitor how everyone washes their hands? Additionally everyone with the vaccine still spreads the virus
The difference being we all mostly have the vaccine and believe it or not it works , do you deny this?
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Your argument in summary actually looks like this:
"People should get vaccinated against COVID because if they don't it means they are racist."
That is your argument summarized!
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Notice a problem with this argument that people with this mindset run into repeatedly. The argument is: "If you do X, then you are Y". Notice how what follows after "then" is not a consequence of the action, but a simple label assignment.
Suppose I were to argue (which I have) that one's race should have no relevance in determining what laws apply to them and how. Then Dreamer would say, "If you do not account for racial disparities in your policies, then you are a colorblind racist". Okay, suppose I am a "colorblind racist": so what? It says absolutely nothing about the consequences of what I am proposing which is what is relevant, but assigns some weird label to me that has zero practical implications. "If you implement policy X, then I get to call you this nasty word" - is the essence of the argument.
This nonsense comes up all the time in these discussions.
- I believe that the minimum wage should not be increased.
- Oh, you just hate the poor!
- I believe that the minimum wage should be increased.
- Oh, you are just a filthy socialist!
Lines of text that do not mean anything in practice.
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